Rip It

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Re: Rip It

Postby SeanTK » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:24 pm

It seems like the participants here really enjoyed this round! You can expect another one in the next week or two!  ;)
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Re: Rip It

Postby ApplePie » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:31 pm

Make sure that the next one is easier to "rip"!
[center][url=http://www.mysimshots.net/photosearch.php?icao=&id=&airport=&aircraft=&country=&airline=&photographer=ApplePie&flightsim=&viewtype=&remarks=&page=&date=&order=views+desc][img]http://www.simviati
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Re: Rip It

Postby SeanTK » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:40 pm

But that's the point! If I post relatively decent images, that one would expect other users to post, it can help further refine our techniques.

I could post a heavily pixelated image of the FS2004 default 737 in a clear blue sky, side-on, but only the newest of the new screenshooters could possibly learn anything from that. I want to address both newbies and the slightly more experienced crowd at once.
Last edited by SeanTK on Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rip It

Postby a1 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:06 am

I really like it. Very creative. It is something we don't see often or at all so nothing to rip. ;)
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Re: Rip It

Postby LeeC » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:39 am

The question is, did you post the image knowing there was very little wrong with it, or did you believe there was something very wrong that you wanted people to notice?

It will help us if you tell us what your opinion of the picture is, and what, if anything, you believed was wrong with it.
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Re: Rip It

Postby markag » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:52 am

I hope it's not too late to "rip it." I think this is a great idea to help new people take better screenshots. I hope I don't come accross too harsh, but its for the betterment of all. Right?

My comments/rips:

1. No real subject

Not necessary in landscape, but I feel something is missing from this particular shot. In landscape type shots, its bets to frame background elements with foreground elements. There is this to some degree, but I still feel like it's lacking something to focus on. You could say that the fence leading to the airport/tower creates motion to the focal point. However, the focal point (tower/ buildings) don't seem significant enough to me.

2. Low angle to ground

Nothing wrong with shots from ground level in concept, but I don't like them in general. Because this is a computer game/simulation, the rendering of textures at extreme angles suffers. The ground textures seem blurry and jagged (sp?). Anisotropic filtering helps with that, but in general the ground textures in FS don't look great from the ground level.

3. In the area between the road and fence, there is a hard edge that appears to be some anomaly in the texture that takes away from the realism.

4. Snow looks cheesy

From lessons in photography, it is generally advisable not to take pictures of falling snow. Snow looks cool in motion, but generally it takes away from a still image.

5. Scenery models

In general, Flight Simulator scenery is best viewed at a distance. The low detailed models look fine from the air, or a distance away, but up close their flaws show. Also, the same tree is repeated over and over. I know that you can't control that, but it takes away from the realism of the shot.

This shot isn't terrible, but I don't feel it is that great. It doesn't play to the strengths of Flight Simulator. Objects in FS are meant to be viewed from a distance/the air. Rendering of textures at extreme horizontal angles to the view plane suffer from blurring. While the concept of the shot is unique, execution suffers.

Like I said above, I hope I don't sounded too harsh. These are just things I feel are drawbacks of this image.
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Re: Rip It

Postby SeanTK » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:41 pm

@Lee,

Beyond the fact that defining what is wrong with an image is EXTREMELY dependent on the person viewing it, I feel if I said that I believe x,y,z is wrong, then all the rip would consist of is "yes I agree", or similar. I don't want to give an opinion on an image I post in order to prevent those opinions from influencing others.
Another way I see these "Rip" threads is: Even if there is nothing inherently poor about the image itself, it still allows us to see what types of things the other artists here would consider in this image, and what they would change if they had to make an image with a similar theme, without severe editing.

@markag,

That's not harsh at all, and was exactly the type of thing I was looking for with these "rip" events. Many of your points are very reasonable and valid, especially in this case, but I must disagree with the statement saying that FS objects must only be viewed from a distance or from the air. Perhaps this wasn't the best example airport to use, but in many cases, custom airport sceneries are designed to be viewed up close, and at or near ground level. Again, I'm glad you posted what you did, and I wish that it could have incited a good discussion among other here, especially since you very nicely laid out your grievances in bullet points! Thanks very providing a very thorough critique! :)
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Re: Rip It

Postby LeeC » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:44 pm

Markag, you brought up some interesting points there, I was wondering though, had this shot been taken in an area of high quality, payware scenery, would some of those problems have existed? In which case, would you say this shot is suffering from "default low-res" FSX problems rather than FSX problems in general?

My comments/rips:

1. No real subject

I think he threw us on this one by not having a plane in the shot... pretty evil trick if ya ask me.
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Re: Rip It

Postby LeeC » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:52 pm

@Lee,

Beyond the fact that defining what is wrong with an image is EXTREMELY dependent on the person viewing it, I feel if I said that I believe x,y,z is wrong, then all the rip would consist of is "yes I agree", or similar. I don't want to give an opinion on an image I post in order to prevent those opinions from influencing others.
Another way I see these "Rip" threads is: Even if there is nothing inherently poor about the image itself, it still allows us to see what types of things the other artists here would consider in this image, and what they would change if they had to make an image with a similar theme, without severe editing.

No, I don't mean, post what you think is wrong when you set the thread up, but now that the discussion has run for a while, I am interested to know how you would have ripped that shot had someone else posted it.
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Re: Rip It

Postby SeanTK » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:20 pm

Lee,

To begin with, this image was created in FS2004.  ;D ;)

As far as a critique of this image, pretending that I didn't post it......

The most apparent fault with it that I see is the blurry road textures. As markag mentioned, more variety in the trees would have been nice too. Also, I would consider adding an approaching or departing light aircraft to the skies on the left side of the image, and removing the snowfall. Lightening the image a bit may be beneficial as well.  :)
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Re: Rip It

Postby markag » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:22 pm

Thanks for the positive discussion guys. I was worried that I wasn't going to come across very well. Especially since I haven't been around on the forums for a while.

SeanTK,

It seemed like the image was from FS2004, but I couldn't be sure so I just referred to it as flight simulator. Hopefully this thread, as well as future "rip it" threads, can generate some good insight for new members.

Lee,

You make good points about payware scenery and texture resolution. The quality of the Scenery dictates if you can view it close up or not. The link you shared showed good looking scenery that can be viewed up close. From my experience, the default scenery (especially in FS2004) isn't that pleasant close up. FSX Scenery is better, and payware can be amazing. To me it's not a rule that you should show close shots of scenery, but more of a judgment call.

Sure, the resolution of the textures matters too at shallow viewing angles. So does the amount of AF filtering. If you look at the image here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisotropic_filtering you can see the effect of different levels of filtering on the same texture. FSX has higher resolution textures than FS2004. And, of course, you can purchase/download higher resolution textures that look even better. But, it is still working against the computer to some degree when viewing textures at shallow angles. Again, its a judgement call about what looks good.

Hopefully this helps new screenshot artists get into our heads a bit, and understand what we look for.
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Re: Rip It

Postby LeeC » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:32 am

[quote]Lee,

To begin with, this image was created in FS2004.
Last edited by LeeC on Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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