The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

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The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby JRoc » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:37 am

Just took up some more research on my mum's uncle, F/O Alexander J Salaba, RCAF.  

Turned up a wealth of information.  Aircraft designation and serial, down to the pilot that shot them down.  I'm quite proud to know that he was part the elite Pathfinders.

Lancaster III (serial JB280) designation LQ-K of 405 Squadron (Pathfinder squadron)

- Took off at 0023 from Gransden Lodge (Bedfordshire) for bombing raid on Berlin

- Shot down by night fighter pilot Lt Friedrich 'Fritz' Potthast of IV./NJG1, crashing at approx. 0210 at Nieuw Schoonebeek (Drenthe).  No survivors.  Crew was buried on January 5th at Schoonebeek General Cemetery.

Crew:
F/O T.H. Donnelly DFM  RCAF    (Pilot)
Sgt L.G.R. Miller            RAF
F/O A.J. Salaba            RCAF     (Navigator)
F/S W.L.J. Clark            RCAF
Sgt B.S.J. West            RAF
Sgt R.E. Watts             RAF       (Tail Gunner)
Sgt R. Zimmer              RCAF


I only have the above three positions (in parenthesis), as those are the only ones I have verification of.


RAF Bomber Command lost a total of 27 aircraft (including 10 Pathfinders) on the 2/3 raid, and 28 the previous night.

The Luftwaffe pilot, Lt Potthast, was later KIA on March 22, 1944 with a total of 11 air victories, 10 of which were night victories.
Last edited by JRoc on Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby SilverFox441 » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:20 am

WOW!

Nice to be able to trace something in the family tree like this, you should be proud.

As an aside, F/S W.L.J. Clark  RCAF was probably the copilot. The remainder of the crew are listed simply as Sergeant, so the one Flight Sergeant would seem to be a sure thing for the one flight crew position not known.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the RAF crew members were all gunners assigned to fill out an RCAF crew, which would make Sgt. Zimmer the Bombadier.
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby Hagar » Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:04 am

Very interesting story. I'm pleased that you were able to trace him. This would have been of some comfort to his immediate family.
Last edited by Hagar on Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby C » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:04 am

[quote]As an aside, F/S W.L.J. Clark
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby Hagar » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:07 am

RAF bombers in WWII did not usually have the luxury of a co-pilot, although occasionally new pilots would go up as "second pilot" for experience. In fact the later heavy bombers (Stirling, Halifax, Lancaster) only had the one set of controls. The crew would have been made up of:

Pilot
Navigator
Bomb Aimer (we didn't call them bombardiers)
Flight Engineer
Wireless Operator,
Top Turret Gunner
Rear Turret Gunner

The exception to this also occured later in the war when some of the smaller Pathfinder sqns would fly with a more experienced pilot (often from the Mosquito force) for the bomb run itself.

Quite right Charlie although I understand that one of the crew members could often take over the controls in an emergency, for example; if the pilot was seriously injured or killed. This would involve physically moving him from the seat & taking his place.

I found this article on a similar incident which gives the crew positions in the Lancaster. http://www.need-family.demon.co.uk/
Although this was the radial-engined Mk II I imagine this was the same on all Lancs.
The Crew
The Avro Lancaster was normally manned by seven crew members:

Pilot - A S Frampton - Seated on the left hand side of the cockpit. There was no Co-Pilot
Navigator - R G Rivers - Seated at a table facing to the port (left) of the aircraft behind the pilot and flight engineer.
Flight Engineer - S R J Price - Seated next to the pilot on a folding seat.
Bomb Aimer - P F Willis-Culpitt - Seated when operating the front gun turret, but positioned in a laying position when directing the pilot on to the aiming point prior to releasing the bomb load.
Wireless Operator/Air Gunner - B E Ansell - Seated, facing forward and directly beside the navigator.
Mid Gunner - T W Hennessy - Seated in the mid upper turret, in the unheated section of the fuselage.
Rear Gunner - C H Winters - Seated in the isolated unheated rear turret.
Last edited by Hagar on Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby C » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:09 am

Quite right Charlie although I understand that one of the crew members could often take over the controls in an emergency, for example; if the pilot was seriously ijured or killed.


Indeed, I imagine it was normally the flight engineer, considering his technical expertise and the fact he was sat next to the pilot 90% of the time.
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby Hagar » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:19 am

Also note that the pilot (captain) & rear gunner of the Lanc from my link were both Pilot Officers.

Pilot: Pilot Officer Allan Stanley FRAMPTON RNZAF.
http://www.need-family.demon.co.uk/Frampton.htm

Rear gunner: Pilot Officer Charles Hugh WINTERS RCAF.
http://www.need-family.demon.co.uk/Winters.htm
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby C » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:27 am

Also note that the pilot (captain) & rear gunner of the Lanc from my link were both Pilot Officers.

Pilot: Pilot Officer Allan Stanley FRAMPTON RNZAF.
http://www.need-family.demon.co.uk/Frampton.htm

Rear gunner: Pilot Officer Charles Hugh WINTERS RCAF.
http://www.need-family.demon.co.uk/Winters.htm


Indeed. A suprisingly high number of air gunners were Officers. I'm faily sure they may have been several all Officer crews in Bomber Command.
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby Carduelis » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:56 am

[quote]Just took up some more research on my mum's uncle, F/O Alexander J Salaba, RCAF.
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby angrynine » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:16 pm

I do have more information about the crash of the JB280 LQ-K, crashed on 2 January 1944 close to Schoonebeek,
Please contact me for further details.......

Best regards,

Rob

http://www.slo-drenthe.nl
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby Flacke » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:24 pm

C wrote:
Quite right Charlie although I understand that one of the crew members could often take over the controls in an emergency, for example; if the pilot was seriously ijured or killed.


Indeed, I imagine it was normally the flight engineer, considering his technical expertise and the fact he was sat next to the pilot 90% of the time.


Yes, an old friend of mine was an experienced RCAF Lancaster Pilot on Euro operations. He survived the War with his crew intact.
He showed me his old photos taken from the Lancaster on operational flights. The thickness of the Flak was astounding.
He told me that his Flight Engineer could fly/land the Lancaster in an emergency. He said the F/E would stand beside him at critical times and assist with switches etc. as required. Then, if Pilot Ernie was disabled the F/E would step in to fly the airplane as best he could.
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Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944

Postby Roypcox » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:33 am

This was very interesting post, I truly enjoyed that piece of info. I did not know that info was available!!!
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