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Boeing's 787 Dreamliner OUCH! (Read 1140 times)
Jan 17th, 2013 at 7:00am

BLAZE   Offline
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"May the wind always be at your back and the sun upon your face. And may the wings of destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars" Cheers George!
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Reply #1 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 4:44pm

C   Offline
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A short grounding is better than a several hundred million dollar lawsuit should one be lost due to a technical failure, such as a mid atlantic/pacific in flight fire.

Smiley
 
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Reply #2 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 4:52pm

Barkingdog   Offline
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inflight fires are taxing and can speed up decision making processes.
 
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Reply #3 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 5:56pm

BLAZE   Offline
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Yep! at least they nipped this one in the butt before anyone got killed.

It's good they didn't let money get in the way of the publics safety for
a change. Things are looking up.

I wonder how things are going on that whole "Stress Crack" thing?
 

"May the wind always be at your back and the sun upon your face. And may the wings of destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars" Cheers George!
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Reply #4 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 6:23pm

wahubna   Offline
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BLAZE wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
Yep! at least they nipped this one in the butt before anyone got killed.

It's good they didn't let money get in the way of the publics safety for
a change. Things are looking up.

I wonder how things are going on that whole "Stress Crack" thing?


From what I have heard from some engineers and draftsman working on the 787, the stress cracks are still a problem but management found a way to cover it up...which is what I heard happened with all the fuel, electrical, hydraulic, and flight control system problems.


I am extremely happy the FAA grounded them now rather than waiting until one went down. Once they fix their mistakes, the 787 should be the next game-changing airliner though.
 

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky
...
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Reply #5 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 6:52pm

Barkingdog   Offline
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wahubna wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 6:23pm:
BLAZE wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
Yep! at least they nipped this one in the butt before anyone got killed.

It's good they didn't let money get in the way of the publics safety for
a change. Things are looking up.

I wonder how things are going on that whole "Stress Crack" thing?


From what I have heard from some engineers and draftsman working on the 787, the stress cracks are still a problem but management found a way to cover it up...which is what I heard happened with all the fuel, electrical, hydraulic, and flight control system problems.


I am extremely happy the FAA grounded them now rather than waiting until one went down. Once they fix their mistakes, the 787 should be the next game-changing airliner though.


boeing has always been safty first. you dont build planes without that in the forefront.

and as far as the coverup BS. i dont believe that. sound like a union planted farce. as far as the issues with the problems, yes, there are kinks and bugs in the system you HUNT for. i would not be surprised that the union created the hidden problems in retailation against boeing moving a plant to a right to work state.
 
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Reply #6 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 7:38pm

Steve M   Offline
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How many high tech aircraft never have a problem after roll out? and first run production? Even the classic airliners usually had some clean up after the first production runs..
 

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Flying with twins is a lot of fun..
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Reply #7 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 7:50pm

wahubna   Offline
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Barkingdog wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 6:52pm:
wahubna wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 6:23pm:
BLAZE wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
Yep! at least they nipped this one in the butt before anyone got killed.

It's good they didn't let money get in the way of the publics safety for
a change. Things are looking up.

I wonder how things are going on that whole "Stress Crack" thing?


From what I have heard from some engineers and draftsman working on the 787, the stress cracks are still a problem but management found a way to cover it up...which is what I heard happened with all the fuel, electrical, hydraulic, and flight control system problems.


I am extremely happy the FAA grounded them now rather than waiting until one went down. Once they fix their mistakes, the 787 should be the next game-changing airliner though.


boeing has always been safty first. you dont build planes without that in the forefront.

and as far as the coverup BS. i dont believe that. sound like a union planted farce. as far as the issues with the problems, yes, there are kinks and bugs in the system you HUNT for. i would not be surprised that the union created the hidden problems in retailation against boeing moving a plant to a right to work state.



The FAA is accusing Boeing of putting production ahead of safety. I am just repeated what I hear and telling what I have seen.

I should note too that my sources are NON union  Wink


One last bit about Boeing always being concerned with safety, I draw your attention to this:
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/boeing_part_defective_f15_longeron_inflight...

Something is not right at Boeing lately  Roll Eyes
 

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky
...
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Reply #8 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 8:02pm

wahubna   Offline
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Steve M wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 7:38pm:
How many high tech aircraft never have a problem after roll out? and first run production? Even the classic airliners usually had some clean up after the first production runs..


Very true, but the source of concern for me was how much Boeing has been talking down issues like planes catching fire, leaking fuel, carbon fiber delamination, brake failures, and even windshields cracking especially considering it already entered passenger service. Safety is an issue when planes are carrying paying passengers. I believe the 787 program will be successful, but I firmly believe some fishy stuff happened/is happening at the top levels of the program.

Airliners in service need to be safe. Yes all new aircraft have issues, but having so many different issues pop up on so many airframes so fast is very shocking. An issue here and there is 100% normal, but not this many this often.
 

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky
...
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Reply #9 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 8:16pm

expat   Offline
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wahubna wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 7:50pm:
Barkingdog wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 6:52pm:
wahubna wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 6:23pm:
BLAZE wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
Yep! at least they nipped this one in the butt before anyone got killed.

It's good they didn't let money get in the way of the publics safety for
a change. Things are looking up.

I wonder how things are going on that whole "Stress Crack" thing?


From what I have heard from some engineers and draftsman working on the 787, the stress cracks are still a problem but management found a way to cover it up...which is what I heard happened with all the fuel, electrical, hydraulic, and flight control system problems.


I am extremely happy the FAA grounded them now rather than waiting until one went down. Once they fix their mistakes, the 787 should be the next game-changing airliner though.


boeing has always been safty first. you dont build planes without that in the forefront.

and as far as the coverup BS. i dont believe that. sound like a union planted farce. as far as the issues with the problems, yes, there are kinks and bugs in the system you HUNT for. i would not be surprised that the union created the hidden problems in retailation against boeing moving a plant to a right to work state.



The FAA is accusing Boeing of putting production ahead of safety. I am just repeated what I hear and telling what I have seen.


This does not surprise me at all. Boeing have an across the board quality problem at the moment. You would not believe what snags we see on brand new 737 deliveries. We are not talking about small stuff either. For example, I was doing a large check on a customer aircraft this last week. I got called over to take a look at a problem. The person doing a particular check wanted to have his sanity checked just to make sure it was Boeing and not him. In an important bit of structure it was found that 15 Hi-Lock fasteners were missing. They had been overlooked during production. The quality of individual components, you can really tell they are the cheapest of three bids. With engine bleed, duct splits between engines (pressure differences out of limits), they are so bad, we are convinced that Boeing are now installing this snag as a standard fit on the production line.......The number of AD's a SB's that have been released for the 737 just recently has really gone up. One involving the elevator and the elevator trim tab, a problem due to cheap materials is so bad, that Boeing states that if the check is not done properly and repeated at set intervals even after modification to check for component failure and wear, then tail plane flutter could occur resulting in catastrophic damage and loss of the aircraft. The 787 is the least of Boings problems at the moment.

Matt
 

PETA ... People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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Reply #10 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 8:38pm

wahubna   Offline
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Shocked
Good grief Matt!
I did not know that about the 737's. Very disturbing stuff.

I am very thankful no one needed to die for the FAA to check the 787, hopefully this is a start of a massive wake-up call for Boeing.
They really need to start living up to there legacy:
(**some of you may disagree with a few, I made a few generalizations**)
1st monoplane American fighter: Boeing P-26
1st successful jetliner: Boeing 707
1st jumbo jet: Boeing 747
1st, 2nd, and 3rd USAF tankers: Boeing KB-29, Boeing KC-97, Boeing KC-135
1st practical strategic airlifter: Boeing C-97
1st 'wide body' land based airliner:Boeing 337
1st true strategic bomber for USAF: Boeing B-29
1st true strategic bomber for Soviet Air Force (VVO): copy of Boeing B-29 (the Tu-4)
1st nuclear bomber: Boeing B-29
1st jet powered heavy bomber in US: Boeing B-47
1st monoplane passenger plane: Boeing Monomail
1st 'modern' pressurized airliner: Boeing 247
Bomber with most payload: Boeing B-52
#1 airliner in history: Boeing 737
Most famous WW2 bomber (in US at least): Boeing B-17

Boeing has an incredible history. It is time to start living up to their reputation.
 

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky
...
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Reply #11 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 8:42pm

Steve M   Offline
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I just cancelled my flight to the Caymans. Me and the wife will be swimming there.  Cool
 

...
Flying with twins is a lot of fun..
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Reply #12 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 9:12pm

Barkingdog   Offline
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i am reminded that i live in a time very different from when i was young. you could count on things being on the up and up and on a mans word.

im anti government. i take with a grain of salt most anything printed. but to know someone in the mire, well that can change things.

i miss flying. i miss all the wonderful liberating things that went with it. Nine Eleven changed all that.
 
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Reply #13 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 10:43pm

BLAZE   Offline
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It may be that boeing is not being dishonest in there claims of quality over
quantity. I meen, come on, they're not murders and they sure as hell don't want
to loose all they've worked for all these years.

I think they need to take a long hard look at the workers on the line. like they say
"Your Only As Good As Your Weakest Link"

If you are not 110% obsessed with your own quality and workmanship, then you
have NO damn business being on the any aircraft production line.

The only other production line I can think of that's this important is submarines. No
room for error! Why do submarines have a much better safety record? because the
line workers are military trained to be obsessed with there own quality and workman-
ship

They can weed out alot of these week links by focusing on the outside contractors.
I think that's a huge problem.
 

"May the wind always be at your back and the sun upon your face. And may the wings of destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars" Cheers George!
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Reply #14 - Jan 17th, 2013 at 11:33pm

BrandonF   Offline
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Another detail that should be noted is that the battery that is having issues on the 787 is not actually built by Boeing, but rather a Japanese company.
 
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